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Re: comparison operators and *typos



 | Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:09:04 -0400
 | From: Paul Schlie <schlie@xxxxxxxxxxx>
 | 
 | > From: Aubrey Jaffer <agj@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
 | >  | Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 02:29:12 -0400
 | >  | From: Paul Schlie <schlie@xxxxxxxxxxx>
 | >  | ...
 | >  | Thereby one could define that an unsigned 0 compares = to signed 0's to
 | >  | preserve existing code practices which typically compare a value against
 | >  | a sign-less 0. i.e.:
 | >  | 
 | >  |  (= 0 0.0 -0 -0.0) => #t
 | >  |  (= 0 0.0 +0 +0.0) => #t
 | >  | 
 | >  |  (= -0 -0.0 +0 +0.0) => #f
 | > 
 | > The `=' you propose is not transitive, which is a requirement of R5RS.
 | 
 | - then alternatively one could define:
 | 
 |   (= -0 -0.0 0 0.0 +0 +0.0) => #t
 | 
 |   while retaining the remaining relationships, as it seems
 |   that = and < relationships need not be mutually exclusive?

R5RS says:

  -- procedure: = z1 z2 z3 ...
  -- procedure: < x1 x2 x3 ...
  -- procedure: > x1 x2 x3 ...
  -- procedure: <= x1 x2 x3 ...
  -- procedure: >= x1 x2 x3 ...
      These procedures return #t if their arguments are (respectively):
      equal, monotonically increasing, monotonically decreasing,
      monotonically nondecreasing, or monotonically nonincreasing.

      These predicates are required to be transitive.

Equal cannot be monotonically increasing.

 ...
 | 
 | > Mathematical division by 0 is undefined; if you return 1, then code
 | > receiving that value can't detect that a boundary case occured.
 | 
 | - yes, as above; and corrected below for unsigned 0's and 0.0's:
 | 
 |   1/0 == inf :: 1/inf == 0 :: 0/0 == inf/inf == ~1
 | 
 |   where although inf equivalent in magnitude to +/-inf,
 |   it's sign is is undefined, thereby similar to nan, with
 |   the exception that if one were to introduce the convention
 |   that '~' may designate an ambiguous sign then the result of
 |   any division by inf or 0 may be considered to only yield
 |   an ambiguous sign although not necessarily magnitude, in
 |   in lieu of considering the value as undefined, i.e.
 | 
 |   inf => ~inf               ; either +inf or -inf
 |   (* 3 (/ 0 0)) => ~3       ; either   -3 or   +3, thereby:
 |   (abs (* 3 (/ 0 0))) => +3

So ~ generates an algebraic field extension attaching the roots of
x^2=1.  Note that ~ is not a real number because it doesn't fit in the
total ordering.

 |   (as this is how an implementation would behave if it considered
 |    +-inf and +-0 it's greatest and smallest represent-able but
 |    non-accumulating values; which effectively enables calculations
 |    to loose precision more gracefully, than falling of the edge of
 |    the value system potentially resulting in a run-time fault.)

Section 6.2.2 Exactness says:

  If two implementations produce exact results for a computation that
  did not involve inexact intermediate results, the two ultimate
  results will be mathematically equivalent.

So loss of precision must not be platform dependent; thresholds of
"greatest and smallest represent-able" values can not affect
precision.  Losing precision in calculation is an attribute of inexact
numbers.

 | > ...
 | > Nearly all of the SLIB occurences of EXPT have at least one
 | > literal constant argument.  In these cases, (expt 0 0) signaling
 | > an error would catch coding errors.  MODULAR:EXPT tests for a
 | > zero base (and returns 0) before calling EXPT.
 | 
 | - ??? The responsibility of an implementation's arithmetic
 | implementation is to be generically as correct and consistent as
 | reasonably possible.  If slib chooses to optionally signal a
 | runtime error for any arbitrary set of argument values, that's it's
 | prerogative; but should have nothing to do with what the arithmetic
 | value of (expt 0 0) or any other function is most consistently
 | defined as being.

My point is that (expt 0 0) is unlikely to occur when EXPT is being
used as a continuous function; its occurrences will be exponentiating
integers.  In the integer context, arguments about limits of
continuous functions are irrelevant.

 |   (all arithmetic functions should always return values).

6.2.3 Implementation restrictions:

  If one of these procedures is unable to deliver an exact result when
  given exact arguments, then it may either report a violation of an
  implementation restriction or it may silently coerce its result to
  an inexact number.

Always returning a value is a stronger requirement than R5RS or
SRFI-70, which gives the implementation a choice between returning 0/0
and signaling an error for (/ 0.0 0.0).  Can you justify that mandate?
Do you consider QUOTIENT, MODULO, and REMAINDER arithmetic?

 | > Grepping through a large body of Scheme code found no use of EXPT
 | > where the two arguments are related.
 | 
 | - which has nothing to do with anything, functions should be considered
 |   to be evaluated about static points:
 | 
 |   i.e. (f x y) == (f (+ x ~1/inf) (+ y ~1/inf))

The integer uses for EXPT should also be considered.

 |   there's nothing special about 0, as any function may impose
 |   relative trajectories for their arguments:
 | 
 |   (define (f x y) (/ x (* y y y (- y 1)))
 | 
 |   as such the only consistent thing that an implementation can
 |   warrant is that all primitive arithmetic expressions are
 |   evaluated equivalently about the static values passed to them,
 |   independently of whether or not the values passed to them have
 |   begun to loose precision due to the limited dynamic range of an
 |   implementation's number system. Thereby at least as a function's
 |   arguments begin to loose precision, the function correspondingly
 |   degrades in precision correspondingly and consistently, without
 |   after already yielding relatively inaccurate results decides it
 |   doesn't know the answer at all, or chooses to return a value
 |   which is inconsistent with it's previous results. (admittedly in
 |   my opinion)

SRFI-73 is about exact numbers.  EXPT will only return exact numbers
for exact arguments.  Loss of precision means inexact numbers.

 | > (expt 0 0) ==> 1 is one of the possibilities for SRFI-70.  But I
 | > am leaning toward the "0/0 or signal an error" choice to catch
 | > the rare coding error.
 | 
 | - Again, in just my opinion, I'd rather a function return the most
 |   likely useful static value as a function of it's arguments, rather
 |   than it trying to pretend it knows something about the arguments
 |   passed to it and potentially generating a runtime fault.
 | 
 |   However it does seem potentially useful to be optionally warned
 |   whenever the precision of a primitive calculation drops below
 |   some minimal precision; i.e. it's likely much more useful to know
 |   when a floating point value is demoralized (as it means that the
 |   value now no longer has a represent-able reciprocal, or when an
 |   argument to an addition is less than the represented precision of
 |   the other operand, as these are the type of circumstances which
 |   result in inaccuracies, which by the time one may underflow to 0,
 |   or overflow to inf, and hope it gets trapped by some misguided
 |   function implementation which should have simply just returned
 |   the correct value based upon the arguments it was given and have
 |   the application check for what it believes is correct, it's
 |   already much too late, as regardless of whether some
 |   implementation's arithmetic system discontinuity was ticked, the
 |   results of a calculation are at best already suspect.

Bear@xxxxxxxxx is also interested in specifying precision.  See
<http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-70/mail-archive/msg00088.html> about an
idea for latent precisions.

 | >  | Where I understand that all inf's are not strictly equivalent,
 | >  | but when expressed as inexact values it seems more ideal to
 | >  | consider +-inf.0 to be equivalent to the bounds of the inexact
 | >  | representation number system, thereby +-inf.0 are simply
 | >  | treated as the greatest, and +-0.0 the smallest representable
 | >  | inexact value;
 | > 
 | > <http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-70/srfi-70.html#6.2.2x> shows that
 | > inexact real numbers correspond to intervals of the real number line.
 | > Infinities corresponding to the remaining half-lines gives very clean
 | > semantics for inexact real numbers.  Infinitesimals (+-0.0) are a
 | > solution in search of a problem.
 | 
 | - only if it's not considered important that inexact infinities have
 |   corresponding reciprocals;

Inexact infinities have reciprocals: zero.  Their reciprocals are not
unique, but that is already the case with IEEE-754 floating-point
representations:

  179.76931348623151e306		==> 179.76931348623151e306
  179.76931348623157e306		==> 179.76931348623157e306
  (/ 179.76931348623151e306)		==> 5.562684646268003e-309
  (/ 179.76931348623157e306)		==> 5.562684646268003e-309

 |   which seems clearly desirable as otherwise any expression which
 |   may overflow the dynamic range of the number system can't
 |   preserve the sign of it's corresponding infinitesimal value,
 |   which if not considered important, there's no reason to have
 |   signed infinities, either, etc. ?

#i+1/0 is the half-line beyond the largest floating-point value.  The
projection of that interval through / is a small open interval
bordering 0.0.  That interval overlaps the interval of floating-point
numbers closer to 0.0 than to any other.  Thus the reciprocal of
#i+1/0 is 0.0.